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关于谢默斯·希尼的短诗《歌》

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发表于 2015-4-14 20:51:21 | 显示全部楼层 |阅读模式
本帖最后由 stonescott 于 2015-4-14 20:53 编辑



一棵花楸树像撅着嘴的女孩。
在小路和大道之间,
一些赤杨远远地站在
湿漉漉的灯心草丛中。

土语像泥泞中绽开的花朵,
完美的音调不凋的蜡菊,
此刻,鸟在这一切的音乐中,
近乎地啼唱。

Song -----by Seamus Heaney

A rowan like a lipsticked girl.
Between the by-road and the main road
Alder trees at a wet and dripping distance
Stand off among the rushes.

There are the mud-flowers of dialect
And the immortelles of perfect pitch
And that moment when the bird sings very close
To the music of what happens.


这是我在阅读谢默斯·希尼的诗歌时,在网络上搜索到的翻译版本。
这样的汉语翻译在网络上流传,正常吗?
这首短诗的理解有没有问题?
希望大家各抒己见,谈谈对这首诗的理解!
 楼主| 发表于 2015-4-15 10:19:21 | 显示全部楼层
除了第2行没有问题,貌似均有理解问题
发表于 2015-4-15 12:50:59 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 huapi 于 2015-4-15 14:44 编辑

问1、这样的汉语翻译在网络上流传,正常吗?
问2、这首短诗的理解有没有问题?
答1:正常
答2:从译文很推测理解有没有问题。

我的草译:

花椒树像个涂口红的姑娘。
在主道与侧道之间,赤杨木
隔着一段湿润欲滴的距离
远远地站在灯心草中。

那儿有荒腔野调的沾泥之花
还有绝对音准的蜡菊
而鸟儿鸣啭那一刻,几乎成了
这一切发生的音乐。
 楼主| 发表于 2015-4-15 15:28:10 | 显示全部楼层
这首诗的标题是《歌》,何为歌?

个人以为:静态的歌体现为词和谱;动态的歌体现为声音和音乐

至此,我认为最后两行的理解和翻译存在问题
 楼主| 发表于 2015-4-15 16:07:48 | 显示全部楼层
我也草译下,踢球去了。



花楸树好似抹了口红的女子。
在小路和干道之间,
隔着一段湿漉漉的距离,桤树林
远远地被灯心草包围。

那里有方言一般长在泥地里的花朵
还有臻于完美的蜡菊
鸟鸣叫起来,多么契合
音乐在此时恰好响起。
发表于 2015-4-16 06:31:27 | 显示全部楼层
huapi 发表于 2015-4-15 12:50
问1、这样的汉语翻译在网络上流传,正常吗?
问2、这首短诗的理解有没有问题?
答1:正常

那儿有荒腔野调的沾泥之花
-->"一口土腔,操著土腔的",意下如何?
 楼主| 发表于 2015-4-16 09:09:15 | 显示全部楼层
jb910 发表于 2015-4-16 06:31
那儿有荒腔野调的沾泥之花
-->"一口土腔,操著土腔的",意下如何?

alder  桤木,桦木科, 通常生长于沼泽地带

人有人言,兽有兽语,花亦有花语。
比如:红玫瑰的花语是:热恋、希望与你泛起激情的爱
康乃馨的花语是:母爱
发表于 2015-4-16 10:40:45 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 huapi 于 2015-4-16 11:53 编辑
jb910 发表于 2015-4-16 06:31
那儿有荒腔野调的沾泥之花
-->"一口土腔,操著土腔的",意下如何?


向J兄汇报一下我译读时的小心思:

-->dialect的本义是“方言(土话),语调(口音)”,所以最初考虑的即是“说土话的…”“本地口音”“乡音”类似“一口土腔,操著土腔的”译法。之所以改作“荒腔野调”一为避免出现“土”字与“泥”字相重;二为这一句(整个第二节其实是个长句)运用了通感以音写形,侧重音调。沾泥之花的野花未免粗陋俗气,而古希腊语中意为“太阳,金子”的永恒之花蜡菊却是高贵大气,如民族唱法与美声唱法融会在一起。花虽有语却无歌,直到那只鸟亮嗓,这一派春色呼之欲出,如歌回响。
-->值得注意的是:全诗三个句子,而第二节是个分了行的复合长句,其动词系are。从句“that moment when the bird sings very close To the music of what happens.”中的“very close to……"修饰的是that moment,而非“鸟声very close to……”。(@stonescott)


 楼主| 发表于 2015-4-16 20:43:32 | 显示全部楼层
这首诗还有一个症结需要解开,那就是最后一行中的 the music of what happens ,感觉这里应该是用典了,但是遍查不到,请高手点拨一二。
发表于 2015-4-16 21:31:04 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 jb910 于 2015-4-16 21:35 编辑
huapi 发表于 2015-4-16 10:40
向J兄汇报一下我译读时的小心思:

-->dialect的本义是“方言(土话),语调(口音)”,所以最初考虑的 ...


你躺在翻译论坛的深深深处十多年,都快修炼成仙了,赞!
发表于 2015-4-16 22:35:33 | 显示全部楼层
stonescott 发表于 2015-4-16 20:43
这首诗还有一个症结需要解开,那就是最后一行中的 the music of what happens ,感觉这里应该是用典了,但 ...

应该就是一种风趣说法 the thing of what happens.
发表于 2015-4-17 07:35:10 | 显示全部楼层
这里的music 指的是dialect 和 perfect pitch。
very close to……修饰的是就是music
 楼主| 发表于 2015-4-17 09:37:53 | 显示全部楼层
huapi 发表于 2015-4-16 10:40
向J兄汇报一下我译读时的小心思:

-->dialect的本义是“方言(土话),语调(口音)”,所以最初考虑的 ...

最后一行中的 the music of what happens ,感觉这里应该是用典了,找到了一段话,画皮兄怎么看?

http://www.irishcultureandcustoms.com/AMusic/SeanNos.html

When the warrior Finn mac Cumaill was being questioned by a druid, the druid asked him what was the most beautiful music. 'Is it,' the druid asked, 'the waves of the sea crashing against the Cliffs of Moher? Is it the sound of the skylark rising over the Dingle Peninsula at dawn? Is it the sound of a butterfly hovering above daffodils on the Aran Isles in the springtime?' 'No,' said mac Cumaill. 'Well, what is it then?' And mac Cumaill answered, 'It is the music of what happens.'
 楼主| 发表于 2015-4-17 09:52:56 | 显示全部楼层
海舟兄提到了下面一段:
Once, as they rested on a chase, a debate arose among the Fianna-Finn as to what was the finest music in the world.

"Tell us that," said Fionn turning to Oisi'n [pronounced Usheen]

"The cuckoo calling from the tree that is highest in the hedge," cried his merry son.

"A good sound," said Fionn. "And you, Oscar," he asked, "what is to your mind the finest of music?"

"The top of music is the ring of a spear on a shield," cried the stout lad.

"It is a good sound," said Fionn. And the other champions told their delight; the belling of a stag across water, the baying of a tuneful pack heard in the distance, the song of a lark, the laugh of a gleeful girl, or the whisper of a moved one.

"They are good sounds all," said Fionn.

"Tell us, chief," one ventured, "what you think?"

"The music of what happens," said great Fionn, "that is the finest music in the world."

He loved "what happened," and would not evade it by the swerve of a hair; so on this occasion what was occurring he would have occur, although a king was his rival and his master. It may be that his mother was watching the match and that he could not but exhibit his skill before her. He committed the enormity of winning seven games in succession from the king himself!!!

发表于 2015-4-17 10:08:10 | 显示全部楼层
stonescott 发表于 2015-4-17 09:52
海舟兄提到了下面一段:
Once, as they rested on a chase, a debate arose among the Fianna-Finn as to w ...

谢谢stone兄! Stone 细致,钦佩! 握手。
发表于 2015-4-17 10:58:02 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 huapi 于 2015-4-17 11:02 编辑
stonescott 发表于 2015-4-17 09:37
最后一行中的 the music of what happens ,感觉这里应该是用典了,找到了一段话,画皮兄怎么看?

http: ...


这恐怕要看Anthony Bluett书中提及的这个故事流传多广,影响多大,是否够“典”了。虽然很喜欢 Sinéad O'Connor唱的Sean-Nós歌曲,但对“音乐—典故—诗人—这首诗”之间的关联度实在无法判断:)
发表于 2015-4-21 21:03:07 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 huapi 于 2015-4-21 22:29 编辑
stonescott 发表于 2015-4-17 09:37
最后一行中的 the music of what happens ,感觉这里应该是用典了,找到了一段话,画皮兄怎么看?

http: ...


@stonescott 偶然发现了这个,你的感觉是对的:)这下我们的译文都需要修改。

'The music of what happens'

Higgins chose the exhibition title from a line in the Heaney poem "Song," which has its roots in the legend of Irish hero Finn McCool, who asks his warriors what the best music in the world is. When they turn the question back to him, he replies, "The finest music of all is the music of what happens."

"The poem really captures the way Heaney is able to celebrate the everyday and transform it into something miraculous," Higgins says. "That's also something we hope the exhibition will do—take visitors through the trajectory of his writing, from the earth-bound bog poems of his early work to the airiness and uplift of crediting marvels in his later career."
发表于 2015-4-27 15:22:56 | 显示全部楼层
what happens, 我想了很多,比如事物之发生,现实,真实的生活等,后来还是觉得可能化为生活比较简单易懂。



一株花楸如涂了口红的少女。
主道与旁路之间
桤木在湿淋淋的远处
挺立于灯芯草丛。

这边是泥花,土腔土韵,
还有不凋的蜡菊,音调精准,
还有鸟鸣的这一刻,很接近
生活的乐音。

发表于 2015-4-30 16:50:43 | 显示全部楼层
比原来的好多了。欣赏。也想试译一下。

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